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Tinderbox Users >> Questions and Answers >> Dragging notes between tinderboxes
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Message started by Paul Atlan on Apr 1st, 2016, 12:39am

Title: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Paul Atlan on Apr 1st, 2016, 12:39am

I thought it was possible to copy notes from one .tbx file to another (aTBRef certainly seems to imply so: http://www.acrobatfaq.com/atbref6/index/MiscUserInterfaceAspects/CopyingMovingtextwithinT.html) but I find that I can't drag my notes outside of their own TB window.
Both .tbx files are in the same folder on my hard drive.
Is there a secret trick I'm missing?
Cheers.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Desalegn on Apr 1st, 2016, 1:58am

Copy Paste works for me

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Bernstein on Apr 1st, 2016, 4:14am

In Tinderbox 6.5, you can only drag within the current window, but you can copy and paste anywhere.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on Apr 1st, 2016, 5:07am

@Paul Ah, I'd missed that. I'd left the drag references in that note in case it would be a late v6 addition and then forgot to re-check it. I've updated the aTbRef page in question.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Paul Atlan on Apr 1st, 2016, 2:38pm

Thanks for the reply.
Copy Paste works, but does not retain Attribute contents (even for non-user Attributes such as isPrototype), nor formatting (e.g. Badges).
I feel I must be missing something.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on Apr 1st, 2016, 5:45pm

I believe that is only true if the attribute in the source note doesn't already exist in the target note (I've just re-tested this in 6.5.0).  In v5 you could drag attributes between the attributes palettes of different TBX but now, in v6, with a single Inspector that is no longer possible. Thus, you need to ensure all attribute (to be copied are added to the target TBX before you paste in items from the source TBX. Sadly, there is no mechanism for copying one/several attribute with all settings from one TBX to another (I guess that's a feature request at this point).

I presume the behaviour of intrinsic attribute values may be variable, e.g. things like $Xpos, $Ypos, $Height and $Width may be not all work the same.

Another potential confusing factor is if you have a custom attribute as a Key Attribute in the source TBX and past the note to another TBX (without the attribute), the 'missing' attribute still appears in the KA table but note is it in grey - actually indicating it is missing. This is because $KeyAttributes is a Set of text strings of attribute names. When rendering that list as a KA table, it assumes the user knows best and includes those items because that's what the user asked for.

I think that's a truer answer and I need to update the aTbRef page re user attributes. It was there  but in another note that I think got deleted when updating the resource for v6.  :-[

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Paul Atlan on Apr 2nd, 2016, 2:55am

Thanks for your patient explanation. I'm starting to understand how this works. I still see behaviour that surprises me (mostly for known Attributes values that are not copied over) but I think I'll be able to merge my two .tbx files now.

edit after playing with this for a while:
By far the most robust method I've found is to put everything in a container note and copy that note over (use the copy command in outline view with the note collapsed). This way, links are preserved as well.
Maybe that tip could find its way in aTBRef's discussion of copy/pasting?

Again, thanks for your patience.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on Apr 2nd, 2016, 12:14pm

@Paul. Good idea, so noted.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Bernstein on Apr 3rd, 2016, 8:02am

Copy/Paste will copy all attributes, provided that the attribute exists in the destination document!

Instrinsic attributes aren't copied, naturally, since they're always computed from properties of the destination note. For example, $Xpos and $Ypos are always the map position of the note, and that might depend on where you pasted the note in the destination document.  

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 10th, 2016, 2:57am

Glad I found this conversation. I am new to Thinderbox and I am not sure how I will use it for my projects. So in one case I want to merge two projects (TBX files) and I noticed that I can select multiple notes and "move" them over to another project. BUT then one note is copied and the other ones become "children" of this note.

Is there any way I can easily move multiple notes between projects including links?

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on May 10th, 2016, 3:50am

As long as links start/end within the copied/pasted group they are retained. I made a set of about thirty notes nested to 5 levels deep and descending from 3 different root containers, and interlinked them. I copied and pasted the these notes in v6.5.0 and the links and nesting were retained. I tested both with the selection fully expanded (i.e. all to-be-copied notes visible) and with the set collapsed to just the 3 root containers.  Both tests worked.

Are you using copy/paste?

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 10th, 2016, 4:49am

Thanks for the quick reply. It does not work for me. I get one note and all the other notes line by line within the same note.

I select the notes using the ALT key. Then I click copy or (CMD C) and go to a different TBX file. There I paste and get the result above.

I made a small screencast about it, but I am not allowed to post it here. hope that link works
cl.ly/1p0L2N422g2U

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on May 10th, 2016, 6:20am

I see your video and can't replicate that - have you tried moving the resulting icon to see if the others are placed beneath (stacked behind) it?

The prototype assignments don't travel. This is expected - if you want to retain the source prototype assignment you need to copy the relevant prototypes as part of the paste.

I set up a test like in your video but can replicate the effect. Are you pasting into an agent's map?

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 10th, 2016, 7:30am

Whatever I copy, the result is only one note in the new project. There are no notes beneath it.

I got a license yesterday and entered it. Can it be that I still run some kind of trial beneath it?

I am not worried about the prototype. I also don't paste it into an agent map. Just to the top of the map.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on May 10th, 2016, 9:55am

RE the licence. Open Tinderbox (I'm using v6.5.0 here) and go to TinderboxSix menu > Register Tinderbox. The dialog that opens will have a green tick in the lower right corner if correctly registered. As in:



As I recall the demo mode only allow a maximum of 20 new notes so if you're adding more than that in the paste (including other new notes that session), a paste might not work. I'm not set up to test that right now as I'm busing using Tinderbox for research so can't mess around with its configuration.

Assuming the app is correctly registered and by way of trying to pin down the error, does this problem occur in every new file, or just in one?

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 10th, 2016, 12:41pm

I am on 6.5 and the green tick. The error happens copying between any files. I cannot see a pattern. It just does not work.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on May 10th, 2016, 1:46pm

OK - so we've confirmed it's not a registration/demo state problem. We also know from my test earlier that the issue doesn't affect all users, otherwise I too would see the effect. So we need a smaller test. For now, I'd suggest testing in outline view as the results are more obvious (e.g. it's easier to see and verify child/descendant notes from the same view context).

Make a new empty TBX file, select outline view. Don't add any prototypes. Create a new note, and add a child note to it. Create second new empty TBX document and select outline view. With the container in the first file expanded, select both the parent and child (total: 2 notes) and paste to the outline of the second file. What turns up after the paste? We'd expect 2 notes, one nested inside another. However, from your experience so far would suggest you may get only the parent container.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 11th, 2016, 6:03am

Through outline the copy process works. It creates a container called "imported outline", where the parent and the child is included. But that does not work in a map view and that way I cannot copy links too, right?

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on May 11th, 2016, 7:36am

Something's not right.  When I do this test and I copy/paste between documents (Cmd+C in source doc, then Cmd+V in the new doc), I just get the container and child. I don't get an 'imported outline' container. The only difference I see is that regardless of whether the parent container is expanded in the source doc the pasted=in container is always collapsed.

Until the basic import works (and yours still doesn't for some reason) issues about view type is moot. I simple suggested using outline as it's easier to check nesting.

If we're truly doing the same test and you're getting the wrong outcome some other factor is at play. FWIW, I'm using various Macs 2001 MBPro, 2013 MBAir, 2015 MacMini) but all with v6.5.0 on OS 10.11.4 with UK OS locale.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Bernstein on May 11th, 2016, 9:54am

When pasting, links among the notes that were copies will be pasted.  Links to other notes won’t be pasted.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 11th, 2016, 12:17pm

Thanks for the information. For me it is totally fine to copy it through outlines.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 12th, 2016, 4:29am

Small update. It does not really work in outlines either. Same problem as described above.  :-/

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Mark Anderson on May 12th, 2016, 4:36am

As this isn't a generic problem, I'd contact support (info@eastgate.com). Having seen your movie, I don't doubt the issue on your Mac is as you describe it. But, it's not common to all users so will need more precise sleuthing to resolve and that's hard for fellow users here to do, unless we can replicate the cause.

Title: Re: Dragging notes between tinderboxes
Post by Christian Kreutz on May 12th, 2016, 3:38pm

I solved it. It was my copy paste manager, which normally does not interfere. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for the help.

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