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Tinderbox Users >> Questions and Answers >> Writing longer text
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Message started by Fernando Rodriguez on Aug 4th, 2016, 8:49pm

Title: Writing longer text
Post by Fernando Rodriguez on Aug 4th, 2016, 8:49pm

I'm not writing a book (yet!) but I do write technical articles on a regular basis.

The previous brainstorming phase is brilliantly solved with tinderbox, but what would you recommend for writing a longer copy, once you have all the ideas sorted out?

What do you guys use? Ulysses, Scrivener, something else?  Ideally it should support markdown and exporting to wordpress and medium.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 5th, 2016, 4:49am

May I make a suggestion?

If you are going to continue with Tinderbox6,
how about " BoXPress 1.5.6 " ?

BoXPress is a derivative form Tinderbox.

Made by Scott Heftler.

You will see in
TinderBoX Forum  >  Exporting from Tinderbox  >
Page1 > Tutorial for exporting full website.

[http://mapself.com/tb/index/Posts/Computing/BoxPressTutorial.html#id_indexPostsComputingBoxPressTutorialWelcometoBoxPresshtml]
Welcome to BoxPress said,
" BoxPress is a fun and intuitive export system for your Tinderbox notes. "

I use this brotherly tool since ver.1.5.
Especially pertaining to export as HTML.
That's amazing.
I will try to add a new page in the history of French Flute School
about my Flute Master Marcel Moyse with BoXPress.

I only hope you find it worthy of endorsement.

I talk about something else.

I used to use Emacs for LaTeX,
sometime Ulysses as you offer.
Aside from this Mellel or NisusWriterPro.

Yours, WAKAMATSU :)

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 5th, 2016, 10:15pm

In addition to previous post.

---" ideally it should support markdown and exporting to wordpress and medium. "---

Not allow you any  terms other than as identified above, in any case,
I would like to suggest Ulysses 2.6.
You can export ( publish ) to WordPress that I have just posted day before yesterday.

//////////////////////
In addition to this, how about Zettelkasten ?
[Offizielle Zettelkasten-Homepage: http://zettelkasten.danielluedecke.de ]

You can export markdown, XML, HTML, .txt , tex , CSV etc..

It is really too bad, Zettelkasten WiKi is under construction even auf Deutsch.

I believe it would be useful, too.
Yours, WAKAMATSU :)

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Desalegn on Aug 6th, 2016, 7:37am

WAKAMATSU, wow, I have been using, and digging around TB for over 2 years now: I never heard of PressBox. I am surprised.

For the original question: here is my take:

- Do you want to finish your articles using Latex?
By "technical", are you thinking of scientific publications, or web publications (blogs and like that)?

if yes, then, Ulysses and Scrivener is too much a process and hassle. You should be able to directly take your notes to your Latex editor ( I use Texstudio).

For exporting to Latex, you can either use the html templates, or, rtf conversion. I find the latter more efficient because the html tags are not sufficient to mark all the formatting. I found a good tool (http://rtf2latex2e.sourceforge.net)to convert rtf files to latex: I automat the process with Hazel. I am good to go.

If you want to publish with Word ultimately, both the tools you mentioned does great job. Personally, I find Ulysses more elegant and attractive; and the exporting process is unbelievably simple and elegant. Exporting from Scrivener is a bit clumsy process.  Both of these tools accept opml--the process should straightforward.

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Mark Anderson on Aug 6th, 2016, 10:48am

If doing LaTeX, this might be useful: Working with LaTeX. This is not to suggest Tinderbox specifically aims to use LaTeX as an export format, but the linked-to article came from discussion here some years back from someone who wanted to export direct to LaTeX.

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 6th, 2016, 10:53am

Dear Desalegn,
Thank you for your advance a suggestion and asking a question of LaTeX.

I have considerable interest in yourscript with Hazel.
It will make better use of my Hazel 4.0.5, seem worth a try.

In respect that here is a restricted area to make a trade of personal use.
[E-mail me to (harmos2@yahoo.co.jp) Let me know about it.]

Tinderbox is my final frontier.

====================
At first, Ulysses could convert
from LaTeX to HTM for the good reason that I bought it.

Until Ulysses II persisted these translation.
By the same token why I found Emacs with LaTeX usable.

======================

I am not thinking of scientific publications.
I am a person doing research on Japanese classics(notably ancient writing " Kojiki " ).

Kojiki (published ca BS.712)  is parallel instance or analogous to Edda for your country.

Kojiki-denn by MOTOORI Norinaga
that was disputed aspects of Kojiki.
This bound in Japanese style 44 volumes books(published BC 1764 - 1790) ,
almost 2400-Pages (engraved on a wood blocks)

I would like to make a review of Kojiki-denn with LaTeX.
Once I try to write-down using NoteTaker.app. , came to grief.

I need 2or 3 columns to draw a parallel between original very old writing
and to use the language of the day.

LaTeX is relatively easy way.

/////////////////////////////////////////
I have a long  waite for consummating SILE.
With SILE,  I can put down with 3 different Japanese style.
( I need to use " triglot.lua " as a classes which I asked to build to author)
[SILE is a typesetting system.]
[http://sile-typesetter.org/what-is/]
You will see here.
[https://github.com/simoncozens/sile]
////////////////////////////////////////

I am afraid that SILE can not allow export as HTML (PDF export is allowed).

Let return to LaTeX.

Using LaTeX with Emacs is accustomed for me.
I finish my document without thinking how to regularize.

LaTeX is my old self.
I am a proffesional Classic Concert Flutist.
It is quit easy to follow along reading from the musical score and LaTeX writing.
We can find many special significance for create expressions.
LaTeX might as well say the same to musical notation.
Music is a symbolize with interpretive semantics.

According to my predilection, I transform LaTeX from HTML into another html Format.
My favorite  converter is HeVeA, correctly LaTeX to HTML translator, and it's flexibility.

I made trial of LaTeX to HTML/XHTML/Epub almost evry converter.
(LaTeX2HTML , plasTeX , LyX , pdf2htmlEX etc. )

[HEVEA is a quite complete and fast LATEX to HTML translator.]
[http://hevea.inria.fr]

Even I can
LaTeX → HTML → 
LaTeX  → PDF  → HTML
Markdown  → PDF  → HTML
use Pandoc as a convertor.

Yours, WAKAMATSU :)

P.S
Tinderbox is open to interpretation and fine-tuning( für mich selbst).

P.S 2
I do not think to write nor to publish with Word processor what one does not like.

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Desalegn on Aug 6th, 2016, 1:45pm

Thank you Mark: I have template based on your http://www.acrobatfaq.com/atbref6/index/Export/WorkingwithLaTex.html : It works fine except some formatting that the HTML tags don't support.

@WAKAMATSU: yes, pandoc is great. It is an amazing tool. I also have used it a couple of times to convert from Markdown to Latex. I am now using rtf2latex2e because I felt I have more control with it than the pandoc (well, Pandoc also has a number of flags to modify the type of output one wants to get; but, I just don't know how to use them). If you are fine with the pandoc, you are then set. YOU don't have to worry about the Hazel....

For the Latex friends: if you are ready to go to the rabbit holes that I went through, I now have a  little magic script which turns the texts in TB to Latex format by simply copying it.

Copy the RTF (TB) note-->hit a key--> you have a clipboard formatted in Latex, voila!
Paste it in your editor of choice (Emacs for WAKAMATSU).

The tricks are using three tools:

1. http://rtf2latex2e.sourceforge.net
2. https://github.com/dagwieers/unoconv
3. Keyboard Maestro

Once the first two are installed, the system also works in Hazel.
Ask me if you are into it...(if you have installed the first two; I will share the KM macro)

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Mark Bernstein on Aug 6th, 2016, 10:07pm

By the way -- for those interested in longer text -- I wrote the whole first draft of Decline and Fall in Tinderbox, and the second draft in a combination of Tinderbox and Storyspace.

That’s 97,000 words in the text, and perhaps another 25 or 30,000 left on the floor.  Tinderbox itself can be a nice environment for a big text.

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 7th, 2016, 8:40am

Dear Desalegn,

Thanky for your useful information.

I did not recognize about Mark's template for LaTeX.
(Excuse to Mark )
I am quite Tinderbox newbie.

=========
Let's change the subject.

[ 1 ] I get rtf2latex2e via brew install.

[ 2 ]unoconv

I have installed in My OSX10.11.6 El Capitan [pip install unoconv] , [unoconv-0.6] is sat it up.

[In order to use unoconv, a copy of LibreOffice between versions 3.6.0.1 - 4.3.x must be installed.]

I try to download LibreOffice 4.3.7.2, this old dmg file take much time to DL, so I will install ver.4.3.5002.

● I have got rtf2latex2e and unoconv . Thanks.
================================

Now what and how?

Please lead the way in !!

I leave it to you. Yours, WAKAMATSU :)

P.S
I use Keyboard Maestro7.2.1.

Could not I use [LibreOffice_5.2.0_MacOS_x86-64.dmg]?

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Desalegn on Aug 7th, 2016, 10:19am

First, you have to play a little bit how rtf2latex2e works. It is really cool tool. Try to understand how it works because it gives you a full control how to convert RTF to latex. Once you make sure that it is working on your machine: use this KM macro to copy the RTF notes into Latex.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hc69offlwqvduz4/RTF%20to%20Latex.kmmacros.zip?dl=0

Things to make ready for KM to work:

1. Change the usernames in the macro: replace them by yours
2. Create a folder in your document: call the folder rtf2latex2e

Now, try it. If rtf2latex2e is working, the KM macro should work.

Just open a note in TB, select the part you wan to convert: and, hit the key (CTRL+ALT+CMD+C is what I made; u can change it). now, your clipboard should contain a Latex document to be pasted in your editor.

Here you have a GIF showing when I copy in RTF and Paste in Latex

https://www.dropbox.com/s/36do03p0rwj7gvt/RTF2Latex.gif?dl=0

(Oh, sorry, I forget the Libre office dependency; I already use it for occasion editing; I don't own Office applications. the LIbre office: https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/; version 5.2 should work)

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 7th, 2016, 11:33pm

Dear Desalegn,
Thank you for your guidance.

Almost I got it.

///////////////////
I made a folder for rtf2latex2e exactly same as [rtf2latex2e].
I have changed usernames.
L.39& L131<string>/Users/WAKAMATSU/Documents/rtf2latex2e/temp.rtf</string>

But in [RTF to Latex ]macro can still use upper case [RTF2Latex] or
should I chamge to  case sensitive ?
Cf. L.72 <string>cd ~/Documents/RTF2Latex

I must change my document folder's name to upper case [RTF2Latex] ,
because terminal indicated [Processing /Users/WAKAMATSU/Documents/RTF2Latex/temp.rtf]like that.
//////////////////////

Using CotEditor , I can transform rtf to latex, but with Tinderbox note I can not act in similar fashion.

Inside the note can not export to LaTeX.(Only the difference is with .png)

It must be beginner's screw-up.

But what and whre can I cheque ?

When my note have some kind of image?

///////////////////////////////////////

I would like to attach .png for my note in full view.(prepared)
But I do not know how to insert for this Forum,yet.
(I try to select Insert Image icon, but it  does not work to select from my document file. )

Yours, WAKAMATSU :)

P.S
L.152 & L171<key>Name</key> ??
Here should I change there as a username?

(Graphviz2016-08-08 11.57.40.png, this png is what I want to indicate as my note in whole view.)

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 8th, 2016, 1:29am

Dear Desalegn,

I'm sorry to ask a rude question, I made an easy-mistake.
I should tell RTFD to LaTeX.
This Convertor is rtf to LaTeX.
I made a careless mistake.
This is a common mistake made by beginners like me.

////////////////////////////
But then, when I read through rtf2latex2e manuals,
I find mention in [2] following.

====================
The main features of rtf2latex2e is

2. reads embedded figures: PICT, EMF, GIF, TIFF, WMF, PNG, JPEG
((c) Ujwal Sathyam 1999, Scott Prahl 2011)
====================================

rtf2latex could not work the other way like LaTeX2RTF ??

[LaTeX2RTF]
4.10 Graphics
There is now rudimentary support for \includegraphics. Three file types will be inserted into the RTF file without needing conversion: .pict, .jpeg, and .png files. EPS and PDF files are converted to PNG using convert from the ImageMagick package. Some options are even handled properly.

Yours, WAKAMATSU

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Desalegn on Aug 8th, 2016, 6:12am

I didn't actually investigated the image insertion (conversation) capabilities of the script since I rarely insert images into my TB texts. That is interesting actually. I will look into it in the future, if the need arises.



Quote:
rtf2latex could not work the other way like LaTeX2RTF ??

I don't think the reverse direction is possible. I never thought about it before as I always finish my writings with the Latex. That will be interesting too. Pandoc should be able to do that.


I am glad you find it useful.

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 8th, 2016, 8:52am

Dear Desalegn,

Thank you for your comment.

I wonder if rtf2latex2e could export with images.

I know using Pandoc can export from LaTeX to rtf but maybe not to rtfd ??

I will try once.

Might I ask you some questions?
You insert images into your TB text.
But where ?
In individual note itself or somewhere else?

Kindest regards , WAKAMATSU  :)

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Desalegn on Aug 8th, 2016, 4:41pm


Quote:
Might I ask you some questions?
You insert images into your TB text.
But where ?
In individual note itself or somewhere else?


Well, it depends on the type of image you have, or what you want to do with it.   You can also have an attribute. In that case, you will have only the link to the image: keeping the file on your disk. you can use images as adornments of maps also (i didn't use that one)

For small snippets, shorter images, you can direct drag it into the text area; copy paste. Screenshots fit very well.

Here is the yesterday's example note with image (obviously from this blog) added to it


Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by WAKAMATSU on Aug 10th, 2016, 9:21am

Dear Desalegn,

Thanks a lot.

Yours, WAKAMATSU

Title: Re: Writing longer text
Post by Alex Strick van Linschoten on Aug 14th, 2016, 3:12pm

I have written a bunch of books (and a recently-defended PhD) with Tinderbox as the main tool for planning and working with the initial drafting process. I wrote up some of that process here (http://www.alexstrick.com/blog/2014/10/note-taking-jujitsu-or-how-i-make-sense-of-what-i-read), in case that's useful for someone.

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