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Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view (Read 16442 times)
Andrew Saffer
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Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Apr 09th, 2008, 1:40am
 
I have moved to Tinderbox from Scrivener, and can't go back, but I do miss two features:

1. Full-screen editing. The closest I can get is using Isolator to make the background black and minimising all the other windows, then putting the Note window in the middle of the screen. I'm so easily distracted...

2. Edit Scrivenings. This feature puts all the notes texts together (effectively the same as being able to edit live in HTML View).

Can I simulate these two features in Tinderbox?

Michael? Amber? Anyone Smiley.

Thanks,

Andrew
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Mark Anderson
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #1 - Apr 9th, 2008, 7:08am
 
#1. TB has no such feature.  If you have WriteRoom you can select your current note and use TB's Services menu to send the current selection to Write room.  Currently, TB has no service to allow you to bring the data back - you'd need in WriteRoom to select all, copy, switch to TB and paste.  It would certainly be neat if TB had services to allow you to send an RTF or plain text selection to a new note or do the same but with the current note (hmm append or replace choice?). Inbound TB service...a feature request?

#2. Again, no such feature.  If you want to see a run of notes, look into the Text export (Nakakoji) view. That said, neither that nor the HTML view are intended for live editing.
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Mark Bernstein
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #2 - Apr 9th, 2008, 1:14pm
 
Take a look at Write.app , which has a nice Tinderbox round-trip support.

I imagine you could also automate round-trip full-screen editing fairly easy with a macro program like Keyboard Maestro....
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mhanlon
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #3 - Apr 9th, 2008, 1:27pm
 
The URL for Writer.app is http://supertart.com/qisoftware/Writer.html

(Website managed, for what it's worth, by Tinderbox. Smiley)
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Andrew Saffer
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #4 - Apr 10th, 2008, 5:12am
 
Thank you all for your help.

If I can be so rude as to re-ask Question 2, is there a way to set Explorer View so that when I highlight more than one note in the outline, the text from all those notes appears in the right-hand panel?

Thanks again,

Andrew the Cheeky
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Mark Anderson
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #5 - Apr 10th, 2008, 6:09am
 
No! The Explorer view is a special view type. You can only have one open at a time (per open TBX file). A new Explorer view can only be created if (a) there isn't open already for that TBX and (b) a note is curently selected.

The Explorer left pane can show any one of Map, Outline or Chart view data. The right pane always shows the text window (without sidebar) for the currently selected single note. If you deselect all notes in the left pane, or select more than one, the right pane will be empty: it only displays a single note's text. The right pane will show key attributes at the top of the pane if the note in focus has any KeyAttributes set.

So, editing multiple concatenated note content within a Tinderbox app window isn't possible - in effect you're asking for a new feature.
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AsafKeller
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #6 - Apr 10th, 2008, 8:07am
 
Mark Anderson wrote on Apr 10th, 2008, 6:09am:
Editing multiple concatenated note content within a Tinderbox app window isn't possible - in effect you're asking for a new feature.
A very powerful and useful new feature. I would like to send this request.
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Mark Bernstein
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #7 - Apr 10th, 2008, 10:05am
 
It's an interesting proposal!  

I wonder whether multiple-selection in Explorer View is precisely the right approach; I can see a case for doing this with a set of links or a "section" of the hierarchy, as in the Nakakoji view.  

Or, for that matter, using a query and a sorting criteria -- an agent.

But there are a number of complex issues as well.  Can one make a selection that crosses note boundaries?  How are note boundaries to be represented?  What should Tinderbox do if the text record is very long -- a big document with lots of agents might, in this view, have thousands of pages of text.
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AsafKeller
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #8 - Apr 10th, 2008, 10:46am
 
Yes, your suggestion to use an agent to collect the notes would probably be the best solution. Not sure what you mean by "note boundaries"; I envision that an agent would collect all notes that meet the query criteria, and display all their text contiguously. (No matter if the text is too long; that is the user's problem.) It would be useful if note boundaries are subtly indicated, ala Scrivener. If possible, the note's title could be included as well. Support for drag-and-drop between notes displayed in this view would be needed. Thanks for considering this!
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Ioa Petra-ka
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #9 - Apr 10th, 2008, 12:24pm
 
Another application to help isolate Tinderbox is Think. This places a background sheet between the current application and everything "below" it. By default, you get a nice black background behind your application without have to minimise everything else. The program is quite elegant, and should work nicely with Tinderbox.

As for note boundaries, Scrivener handles this by not allowing edits when the selection runs between documents. Text can be selected (for copy and paste purposes), but not edited.

I suggested something similar to this years ago, but modelled around the Nakakoji view where paths and children could be easily included. I could see Explorer view being well suited though! One difficulty with either HTML or Nakakoji is that both of those can display a wide variety of information via their template based views. You would have to worry about not only boundaries between notes---but boundaries between *attributes* and template produced text. In a way, this would allow for a powerful "form" like feature, similar to user-end databases like Bento---but it that also strays from the original concept.
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Mark Anderson
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #10 - Apr 10th, 2008, 1:02pm
 
The 'Think' app Amber mentions can be found here here: http://freeverse.com/apps/app/?id=7013. Interesting idea.
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Greg McQueen
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #11 - Apr 10th, 2008, 5:14pm
 
Hi Andrew.

Check out this little screencast I made. It shows how you can stack your notes in Map View, using the notes as sections of a whole document. Not the same as Edit Scrivenings, but a workable solution within Tinderbox.

I made the screencast because I just got screenflow and wanted to give it a proper test run  Cool

http://www.viddler.com/explore/gregmcqueen/videos/5/

Best regards,
Greg
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Andrew Saffer
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #12 - Apr 10th, 2008, 10:25pm
 
Thanks. Both Think and the Map View stacking ideas are really cool.
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Peter Rich
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Re: Full-screen editing and Editing in HTML view
Reply #13 - Apr 14th, 2008, 2:21am
 
Mark Bernstein wrote on Apr 10th, 2008, 10:05am:
It's an interesting proposal!  

I wonder whether multiple-selection in Explorer View is precisely the right approach; I can see a case for doing this with a set of links or a "section" of the hierarchy, as in the Nakakoji view.  


Very interesting indeed.  In fact, it was precisely this feature that I came to the forums to ask for.  I bought TB a few years ago, but, admittedly never spent the time to learn the syntax well enough and it has fallen into disuse.  However, I have been following the updates and the one thing that really stops me from upgrading and giving it another go (now that a forum's in place, thank goodness), is the ability to read many notes at once.  Let me describe two ways in which I would use this.

#1.  Scripture reading.
I would import the scriptures into TB, and explode individual chapters by verses. So, for example, a note's title might be Genesis 1:1, Genesis 1:2, etc..  As I read the scriptures, I would want to make links to other verses throughout the entire canon of scripture.  I would be able to do this if each note were a verse.  However, for readability, I would want to be able to read several notes all in one place.  Nakakoji view doesn't do it b/c it is a text-only view.  I would want to make comments on individual verses and connect them to other verses.  If TB allowed the reading of several notes in one fell swoop, this management, one that allows high level reading with micro-level annotating/analysis, would be possible.

#2.  Qualitative Data Analysis
This is essentially the same thing, but with qualitative data. I would love to import an interview, explode it by utterance (of each speaker), but then be able to read it as one long text.  As I read the interview, I would draw links between different utterances while reading the entire thing as if a single discussion.  

Can you see the power of this?  And, quite honestly, I don't think it would be that difficult. If each note were rendered as a <div> and separated by a light gray line.  You could even enable the visual rearranging of text notes within this "multi-reader" pane.

Can you see the power in this feature?  What's the likelihood of incorporating it into a future release?
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