Hello,

I am currently working on my dissertation and have considered buying either Tinderbox or Twig as a Note-taking tool.  I've experimented in the trial program read through some of the forums, and case studies but still find this confusing. Mark Bernstein has been super in answering questions I have about how I might set this and suggested that I ask those in the forum who might have insight in applying TBX to academic note-taking:

1. Would any of you have a sample file of prototypes, etc and be willing to share  how you use TBX in basic academic note-taking?

2. Does anyone have a general workflow from Endnote to TBX to Scrivener — is it possible to import bibliographical detail from Endnote?

3. The following is what I've gathered that might work for me — Is there anything that I'm missing, that should be done now to avoid having to go back and correct later? In other words, how can I improve this?

I am taking two different kinds of notes: --

a) interactive notes based on reading (this is basic bib info, abstract, and my responses)
b ) citeable notes — notes I take from my interactive notes that I can insert directly into an outline or manuscript       & would include name/year/page # &  a short statement or direct quote

There would only be one interactive note per source, but there might be several citable notes per source. The title of the citable note would be a key phrase +
Author and year)

I want to be able to sort the citeable notes into key categories (for example — theory, methodology, current problems, key people) --
I also want to be able to use these key categories to show up within the outline on TBX.

*So far, I have one prototype for  Source Notes — including a key attributes for bibliography info, whether it is crucial, used, and  citeable;
This is so I can carry over the bibliographic information from the initial interactive source note to the citeable note.
     
Would it be better to create a second prototype for Citeable Notes?  Then I could use an agent, as Mark suggests, to look for a citable note with a particular text or key word.

Do you keep all of your notes at one level and organize them later, or organize as you go along? On a shorter project, this is a non-issue;
However, I have potentially hundreds of sources.


**I see that I can use adornments to separate citable notes into categories, but the organization doesn't show up in the outline view. The only way that I've found around this
Is to use container notes for to hold citable notes. Is there a better way to organize citable notes within the outline view?

Thank you for your help.

Barbara

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your quick reply! Since I am new to TBX, it may be that I don't quite
understand what it's best used for. I would like an  "everything box" for this particular
project. You say DT is better for this. I was hoping for a database +  mapping and outline functions all to be in one program. It may be a tall request. Apologies -- I know that my questions to some extent have been posted elsewhere by others.

Barbara

I concur Lucas' last point. TB's best points relate to textual analysis. TB can use pictures in some contexts** and it can link to files/folders. But it doesn't try, in terms of main design intent, to perform the 'everything bucket' (tracking all files/formats) perform of tools like DEVONThink, Yojimbo, Curio. Whilst it seems logical at outset to look for a tool that does one's entire task, as one gets into the detail of the task, it's often useful to use several tools that do a limited part of the task extremely well than to push a single tool to do everything (less well).

** I believe that aspect is slated for major overhaul ere long (presumably the next major version).

Thanks to Lucas, Mark Anderson and Mark Bernstein, for your replies!

Lucas,
It's good to know that you find TBX very helpful in your dissertation work. It does seem to be a program one grows into; I just want to be sure that I can use it in at least the most basic way for note-taking and organization, before throwing my hat over the fence, so to speak. It also helps to know that you don't find making changes in your system to be difficult. Certainly, another fear was spending more time on getting my notes right than on my project.  Thanks also for your suggestions about the categories. I did try this out, but all of the categories are showing up for all of my notes. I will keep working on this. I also found the column feature you mentioned for the outline. Progress!

Mark A.,  
Ok-- I see about the use of the term 'everything box.'  I guess by everything, I meant a place for all of my textual notes, as well as a way to map and categorize (and cross-categorize). I don't mind using Endnote for searches and citations, and Papers for categorizing and reading my pdfs, and Scrivener for writing manuscripts, and ultimately a word processor for full drafts.

There was just that one gap where I want to keep all my textual notes and ideas in one place and move them around until I had them in the order that makes sense. I have always been a "notecard" person, and my master's thesis involved many boxes of these. I was hoping that TBX would be an appropriate and perhaps more sophisticated electronic tool for being able to visually move my notes around without "losing sight" of them. As a Windows user I can download "Writer's Blocks," but TBX seems to be better suited for visualizing relationships between notes. I have also used MindJet, but it doesn't seem robust enough for extensive note-taking. If this were just a short paper, I would have simply cut and pasted my notes into a document. I have tried posting notes into Scrivener, because it has the note-card view. This would seem to work only if I posted many notes into one section/ category, as opposed to single notes.  TBX seems more flexible in this regard. I am not familiar with DT, but it seems to be only a database (although a very useful one). Would it be appropriate to see TBX as an everything box for textual notes with mapping and outlining features, or rather a hyperlinked index card system with a desktop floor for spreading those cards about, and a desktop bulletin board to see them in a particular hierarchy?

Mark B,
Thanks for the additional tips on the differences between organizing containers vs. adornments. I will go back and work on this a little further. I'm feeling more confident about how I might use the program!

I attach a link to a copy of my research template, a version of which I use for my (sadly neglected) history degree, and a version of which I use in my day job too: http://cl.ly/3o0t3h2u3s3C1I3t3n46

It is heavily based upon this system: http://calnewport.com/blog/2007/10/01/monday-master-class-how-to-build-a-paper-r...

It has 4 note types: printed sources, quotes, lectures and interviews.  The way I have used it is to list out all the sources on a given topic (starting by copying-in the course reading list, and adding others as I go) and then work my way through them one by one, building a list of quotes to use when it comes to writing up that dreaded essay or thesis. The quotes are linked back to the Source using a link type called 'quote'.

I have found when taking notes say on a journal entry or a book chapter, I prefer to capture them in a single container rather than starting the whole process in a map view or outline view with lots of little notes.  This might not be best practice, but I don't want to think about structure at all when I'm taking notes, I just want to get the words down - you can explode the note later if you want to.  

I do take lots of notes when I read, but I agree with the linked article - the key stuff is the quotes from primary sources, and this system is really designed to capture them methodically and reliably.

The huge advantage of Tinderbox over other systems is that once the information is there, it can be analysed in so many different ways.  I use agents to search for themes.  You can also open the various note containers in map view and play around with grouping things into themes. Try smart adornments for this.  As I am interested in history, I make good use of timeline view.  One of the best ways to identify themes I have found is to use Common Words in the View menu.  Click on a word and you run a search.  In the attached example, the quotes bucket only has two quotes but no doubt yours will run to thousands.  Initially, I would start by using seperators to mark off divisions of notes in the outline, but once past hundreds of notes this would get difficult - at which point, agents would be very helpful to captures notes by theme.  

Tinderbox is great for tracking what I've read, linking quotes to notes etc.  But I use lots of other programmes too and then link to them in Tinderbox (I think it really helps not to be too rigid when doing this stuff - you can agonise over which programmes are best for certain 'workflows', but I think its best just to get on and read and write, and then sort the notes out later in Tinderbox).

Edit: On a related note, ages ago someone here posted a link to a chapter of The Social Imagination, by C Wright Mills, in which he explained his method of note taking.  I thought it was quite interesting and did a little summary of it (far too simplistic for the OP to find of use): http://cl.ly/3q0I0L0p1e0o223n2J0B

There are two really simple points, with which I agree: 1) in order to understand something, you must give form to it and 2) avoid any rigid set of procedures, method or technique.  

Ben

It's actually a Mind Node file.  If you have Mind Node I can post that file, but here's an opml version which you can open with TBX: http://cl.ly/2e0s47360q2m2O3E0h3p

Good stuff here. Ben's file is great!

I guess I'd characterize my use of TBX as a more targeted than trying to wade through a huge pile of all my notes. I like to work in maps, and as Mark A points out, maps are limited to viewing notes on one level (primarily). Putting all my reading notes for a project on one level would be more than I could handle. I suppose I could use the automaticity of agents and smart adornments, but I prefer to find the relevant information manually--and DevonThink makes it easy for me to structure notes to find stuff manually. Plus, I like keeping all my pdf notes in there too for searching.

When I move to TBX (for a writing project) I want to work with a subset of notes I know are important and relevant, and visualize them on the map.

But, as others have pointed out, there's no reason I couldn't keep all my notes in one container, and keep my targeted map analysis in another and transfer back and forth. So I think both your metaphors, Barbara, will work. At the same time, I find any metaphor applied to this program ultimately simplifies to a great degree--it's really a thing unto itself.

Of course, what's awesome about TBX is the flexibility. For non-writing projects (like my time-tracking dashboard, or my syllabus-creating machine), I make use of many more of TBX's features--agents, display plots, etc.

Great thread. Derek, would you mind posting your "syllabus machine?" Thanks.