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Text export ? (Read 5511 times)
Graham Smith
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Text export ?
Jun 01st, 2014, 10:08am
 
Hello,

Things seem to be going well with this, but I can't find where text export is.

Must say I am finding TB6 a lot more intuitive than TB5.

Cheers,

Graham

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Mark Anderson
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #1 - Jun 1st, 2014, 10:14am
 
If you're looking for Nakakoji view in v6, it is not there. I think something is planned to replace it but I'm not sure what.

For now, I'd use 'HTML' export but simply turn off any automatic markup.
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Graham Smith
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #2 - Jun 1st, 2014, 10:33am
 
Hello Mark,

I'm not sure, if that is what I mean or not, but if that what the text export in TB5 was called, yes. I used to export to a txt file that was shared with Marked, so I could look at the output as I went along.

I will have a look at the HTML option, but finding it a bit confusing, and have failed to export anything useful. but I haven't looked at any instructions yet! So will do that now.

Cheers,
Graham
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J Fallows
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #3 - Jun 1st, 2014, 11:06am
 
My standard TB use is similar to that reported by Graham S. Over the years I haven't ever needed/wanted to export something to HTML, so I have spent no time learning the ropes of that export system. But I frequently want to get the contents of a note or list out from TB to a simple text file.

In TB5 the easy way to do that was via the Nakaoji view. Which always sounded complex, but for me just meant "basic text version."

The power of TB is of course its range and almost infinite flexibility. And, as I've mentioned in other posts, overall I consider TB6 a very large step forward in ease, elegance, convenience, and all the rest. The care and craftsmanship that has gone into it is quite amazing. But I think that some class of users, including me, would welcome a so-simple-you-don't-have-to-think-about it way to get a note's content into basic text form. A way that doesn't involve looking for templates, doesn't involve turning off formatting in HTML, and so on. So I hope something as simple as the old Nakaoji approach, maybe now with the name "Export as text," will make its way back in. 
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Graham Smith
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #4 - Jun 5th, 2014, 2:01am
 
Hello Mark,



I have eventually managed to export my container (and children) as a single HTML file , but still not sure I understand how things work Sad

So I am onto the next stage, and now realise I don't know what you mean here.

>For now, I'd use 'HTML' export but simply turn off any automatic markup.<

I have unticked "mark up text" and changed the extension to .txt, but all I get is a txt file (good), which contains all the HTML markup coding (bad) as well as the text.

So I assume turning off automatic markup isn't done by doing what I have done.

Can you explain in a bit more detail.

Many thanks,

Graham


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Mark Anderson
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #5 - Jun 5th, 2014, 6:54am
 
I'm assuming you added the built-in template 'HTML' which adds two templates. If you look at those notes, you'll see HTML code in them. So, what you need is a text-only template. Here are some suggestions (name of template and code to inset in the template:

"Plain Text"
Code:
^value($Text)^
 



"Plain Title and Text"
Code:
^value($Name)^
^value($Text)^
 



"Plain Title and Text Cascade"
Code:
^value($Name)^
^value($Text)^
^if($ChildCount)^^children("Plain Title and Text Cascade")^^endIf^
 



In the last above, note the template refers to its name in the code. If you use a different name for the template, adjust the code.

For plain text export, ding use the 'preview' tab of text as that's a web browser's (HTML) view. The HTML pane will show you the 'text' view of your output. You can select and copy from there if you're not exporting the whole document.
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Mark Anderson
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Mark Anderson
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2014, 7:37am
 
In case it helps, here's a v6 doc with those templates.

You don't need to worry about about the 'mark up text' export setting as this affected ^text^ and ^title^ but not ^value($Text)^ or ^value($Name)^ - which I why I've used those.

With the cascade template it will include all descendant notes - i.e. everything below the current note on that branch of the outline.

If you want a gap between articles experiment with putting more line breaks in the template and/or adding a line of hyphens or tildes, etc.

Hopefully this should deal with the most immediate needs of people for text export. Don't forget to copy from the 'HTML' text pane if you just want that file rather than export the whole document. I'm sure per-file export will come. Just not there yet!
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Mark Anderson
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Graham Smith
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #7 - Jun 5th, 2014, 10:19am
 
Hello Mark,

This is great, and a massive step forward for me, but although the text is exporting fine into a *.txt file, I am still getting a folder with "extras" in it as well as the txt file.

I assume this should not be the case.

Cheers,

Graham
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Mark Anderson
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #8 - Jun 5th, 2014, 10:57am
 
Well, according to which template you use you'd want to toggle 'export children' in the HTML Inspector. If exporting 'Just stuff' with the cascade template you'd un-tick that setting.  If exporting both notes separately you've leave it on. In the former context I get:
  • 'just_stuff.txt' file
In the latter context I get:
  • 'just_stuff.txt' file
  • 'just_stuff' folder
  • 'extras.txt in the 'just_stuff' folder
By default, and regardless of the markup used, TB's default design intent is to export one file per note, laid out in a folder hierarchy matching the outline. To vary that the user has to alter the HTML view settings & templates.
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Graham Smith
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #9 - Jun 5th, 2014, 11:24am
 
Hello Mark,

I have been trying that, as was how the excel export you sorted out for me seemed to work, but in this case I am obviously failing to get just the right combination .

I will keep on trying, as I am obviously doing the right thing, just not doing it right.

Thanks,

Graham
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Graham Smith
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #10 - Jun 5th, 2014, 12:13pm
 
Hello Mark,

OK, seem to have got it now, help much appreciated, but its obvious that I have a lot to learn about Tinderbox speak, as when you said:

"For now, I'd use 'HTML' export but simply turn off any automatic markup."

I had assumed this meant a simple toggle somewhere!

Cheers,

Graham
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Mark Anderson
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #11 - Jun 5th, 2014, 12:30pm
 
A simple toggle? Err, Yes. Tickboxes, on the v5 HTML view and v6 HTML Inspector:

Markup Text -> sets $HTMLMarkupText

Quote HTML -> sets $HTMLQuoteHTML

The latter is probably semi-obsolete, but it's worth acquainting yourself with what it does so you know if you need to use it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think in their rush to open the shrink wrap, folk forget that Tinderbox is a Hypertext tool. HTML is the native language, so it should not surprise anyone if HTML figures as a primary export method.  If I choose to drive my car backwards it might annoy me that there are 5 forward gears an one reverse until someone explains the original design intent was for the car to be driven forwards.  Assumption - dangerous things.

TB's debut was in 2002 and HTML was harder to do then and a lot less-featured than now. Anyway, one of the roles was for writing blogs - otherwise who will see your peerless prose and analysis.  Roll forward and probably most people's text workflow ends in the toxic brew that is MS Word. I'm sure v6 will adapt.
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« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2014, 1:13pm by Mark Anderson »  

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Graham Smith
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Re: Text export ?
Reply #12 - Jun 5th, 2014, 1:04pm
 
Well actually its several tick boxes and you need to write new templates, rather than "a" simple toggle, but lets not dwell on this, its a fantastic program and unlike my last foray with it, where I gave up in frustration, this time I feel I am getting somewhere (albeit with a lot of help).

Interesting your other points, because yes, I have looked on TB as a plain text tool, rather than an HTML tool, but I would still see that as tool for blogging (not that I blog) as Markdown to HTML seems to be the approach to blogging I come across most.

And although most of what I do ends up as PDFs (often via Lyx or Latex), some occasionally ends up as HTML, and when I can't avoid it, MSWord.

Anyway, at least for my test file, I can now get the TB content out and into Marked, where I can choose whether I want, a PDF, HTML, or Word file, or convert to Latex with Pandoc (which I was sure was a Marked option, but it isn't).

So thanks again, I would have never ever worked this out on my own.

Cheers,
Graham
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