Welcome, Guest. Please Login
Tinderbox
  News:
IMPORTANT MESSAGE! This forum has now been replaced by a new forum at http://forum.eastgate.com and no further posting or member registration is allowed. The forum is still accessible via read-only access for reference purposes. If you wish to discuss content here, please use the new forum. N.B. - posting in the new forum requires a fresh registration in the new forum (sorry - member data can't be ported).
  HomeHelpSearchLogin  
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Hiding outline content in map view (Read 6970 times)
Graham Smith
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 66
Somerset, UK.
Hiding outline content in map view
Jun 04th, 2014, 8:34am
 
How do I control what parts of an outline appear in the map view?

From what I am reading about TB5, separators don't appear in the map view, but they do here, with TB6. And that is all I have been able to find.

The obvious purpose of this would be to exclude prototypes and templates from the map view, while keeping them in their own section in the outline view.

Thanks,

Graham
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Mark Anderson
YaBB Administrator
*
Offline

User - not staff!

Posts: 5689
Southsea, UK
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #1 - Jun 4th, 2014, 9:31am
 
You don't - that's not the design idea. The issue is nothing to do with hiding things. Just as adornments aren't pertinent to Outline view and are not shown, the reverse is true with separators. They are effectively dividers/headings for the Outline. Separators aren't visible in Maps except if they are also containers.

Separators were not supposed to act as containers but, by accident of birth, it appeared they were and people started using/liking them thus before the original design intent could be enforced. Now that separators can be a container, it posed a problem for maps which could not see/access the nested content. So:
  • Note separator: only shown in outline.
  • Container separator: shown in both outline and map.
On further checking, I believe separator containers/children showing up in map or chart view is an error (as at v6.0.0).
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2014, 9:48am by Mark Anderson »  

--
Mark Anderson
TB user and Wiki Gardener
aTbRef v6
(TB consulting - email me)
WWW shoantel   IP Logged
Mark Anderson
YaBB Administrator
*
Offline

User - not staff!

Posts: 5689
Southsea, UK
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #2 - Jun 4th, 2014, 9:49am
 
I've edited my last as further checking indicates that what's seen is likely an error.
Back to top
 
 

--
Mark Anderson
TB user and Wiki Gardener
aTbRef v6
(TB consulting - email me)
WWW shoantel   IP Logged
Graham Smith
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 66
Somerset, UK.
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #3 - Jun 4th, 2014, 10:37am
 
Thanks both,

Indeed, indenting the container with the prototypes and templates until they are indented more than any container above them, does indeed work.

I thought it might have been a bit of script that could be toggled to show/hide content in the map view.

Cheers,

Graham



Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Mark Anderson
YaBB Administrator
*
Offline

User - not staff!

Posts: 5689
Southsea, UK
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #4 - Jun 4th, 2014, 12:20pm
 
Unless you'll never, ever, export anything, I suggest leaving Prototypes, Templates, etc., at root level and 'indenting' all you data. This is why I recommend that, except for trivial/tinkering use, you don't start adding content in the first 'empty' window but rather, make a container into which you then add your data. There's no short description for why this helps but if you develop that as a habit for new documents you'll thank yourself in the long run.

Aside: a hard part of giving the sort of general advice people are seeking is many users have quite idiosyncratic approaches to their document structure and the danger is of getting into a discussion of angels & pinheads. The above advice is the best suggestion I can think of that fits the most (new) users.  If you disagree, feel free to do so and plan differently.  Smiley
Back to top
 
 

--
Mark Anderson
TB user and Wiki Gardener
aTbRef v6
(TB consulting - email me)
WWW shoantel   IP Logged
Graham Smith
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 66
Somerset, UK.
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #5 - Jun 4th, 2014, 1:06pm
 
Hello Mark,

Unfortunately, I am obviously not following this, but keen to adopt what you have found to be best practice. As you know, exporting is a critical aspect of Tinderbox for me to sort out.

Are you suggesting a set up like this

Data Container
---Data note 1
---Data note 2
---Data Note 3
Prototypes
---prototype 1
---prototype 2
Templates
---template 1
---template 2

OR

Data Container
---Data note 1
---Data note 2
---Data note 3
prototype 1
prototype 2
template 1
template 2

Or something different. Neither of these arrangements are helping me exclude the templates/prototype notes from the map view.

Cheers,

Graham
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
J Fallows
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 418

Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #6 - Jun 4th, 2014, 1:44pm
 
Quote:
Are you suggesting a set up like this

Data Container
---Data note 1
---Data note 2
---Data Note 3
Prototypes
---prototype 1
---prototype 2
Templates
---template 1
---template 2


I am no Tinderbox guru, compared with either of the Marks (Anderson or Bernstein). But here is the variant of what you suggest, above, that I have set up for most of my files.

I have two root-level containers:

- CONTENT  [master container for notes with actual working content etc]
- SYSTEM [master container for all backstage stuff, including agents, prototypes, and other structural info]

In more detail, this means (with outline-style numbering added for clarity only, not as part how I actually name or label them):

I. CONTENT
   A. Notes
      1...99-- various sub notes
   B. People
      1...99-- various sub notes
   C. Leads    [and so on through any relevant container structure for data]

II. SYSTEM
  A. Prototypes
     1....99 all relevant ones
  B. Agents
     1...99 relevant agents
  C. Templates    [and so on through any other relevant structure, including for me Archives in some files.]
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2014, 2:14pm by J Fallows »  
  IP Logged
Graham Smith
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 66
Somerset, UK.
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #7 - Jun 4th, 2014, 2:29pm
 
Yes, two root containers for Content and System would seem to make sense.

Have you sorted out how to stop the System part appearing in the map view?

Graham
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
J Fallows
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 418

Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #8 - Jun 4th, 2014, 2:41pm
 
Quote:
Have you sorted out how to stop the System part appearing in the map view?

Yes! Any map view is a view of a particular container, either a normal container holding original notes or an ad-hoc container made of aliases that you have manually created or derived from agents. Thus, you create your map views in the CONTENT-descended part of your file, not the SYSTEM-descended part, and you'll never see an unwanted sign of any of the system stuff.

And, to anticipate a possible "but what about?" question: In my set up, Agents are part of the SYSTEM-descended structure. But if you create an agent, and then want a map view of the items it selects (shown as Aliases rather than original notes), you will see only the contents of that container—the notes that match the agent—and not unwanted chaff from other parts of the SYSTEM superstructure.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2014, 2:44pm by J Fallows »  
  IP Logged
Mark Anderson
YaBB Administrator
*
Offline

User - not staff!

Posts: 5689
Southsea, UK
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #9 - Jun 4th, 2014, 3:02pm
 
OK, I'll preface by saying there's no one right way. The key underlying part is start your 'content' in a container. Whether there are one or more other root level containers depends on your experience and needs. Bear in mind that if you get TB to add your first templates and prototypes, it will create folders at root level - though you could move them after.

If exporting bear in mind that an export, even if of only one note, exports relative to the root of the TB doc.  So if you export to the desktop and your exporting file is 5 containers down the the doc will make 5 nested containers on the desktop with your file inside.  For this reason, if exporting an HTML site (like aTbRef) it makes sense to have:

home page note/container
-> all other content
Prototypes/ (doesn't export)
Templates/  (doesn't export)
CSS/
Scripts/

Now the scripts and css folders are direct children of the root of the exported site, for instance, here's aTbRef:



The other root level things are bits like RSS feeds (created via agents). There are content of sorts but live - deliberately - in the root as that's where I want them to export.

I'll start a new reply for an alternate take where it's not export centric.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2014, 3:02pm by Mark Anderson »  

--
Mark Anderson
TB user and Wiki Gardener
aTbRef v6
(TB consulting - email me)
WWW shoantel   IP Logged
Graham Smith
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 66
Somerset, UK.
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #10 - Jun 4th, 2014, 3:08pm
 
I am still missing the obvious here.

Below is my TB outline based on your email (copied from TB)

Content
     Notes
     People
     Lead
System
     Prototypes
     Agents
     Templates

If I put the cursor anywhere in Content, Notes, or Lead, Then choose map view, I get a map that shows "Content" and "System".

Graham
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Mark Anderson
YaBB Administrator
*
Offline

User - not staff!

Posts: 5689
Southsea, UK
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #11 - Jun 4th, 2014, 3:10pm
 
Let's assume we're going to do a mostly Map based (to start with) project. I'd sketch a layout like this:



BY all means sweep the prototypes and such into one common folder. Actually that side of things doesn't matter.  What does matter, is having all the 'content', i.e. not admin/back-of-house, segregated into a separate outline branch. In the outline as shown a query for descendedFrom("Container for content") can't ever match a prototype as it's outside that part of the outline.

However, the map of the root looks a bit ropey:



But, we're not using that map.  Let's hoist the view:



Now, we've our work map and in the other tab, the whole outline.

I hope that gives a few ideas...
Back to top
 
 

--
Mark Anderson
TB user and Wiki Gardener
aTbRef v6
(TB consulting - email me)
WWW shoantel   IP Logged
Graham Smith
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 66
Somerset, UK.
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #12 - Jun 4th, 2014, 3:22pm
 
Ah OK, thanks Mark and Jim, The penny has dropped.

You don't actually "hide" the System stuff, you just open the Content part of the map, and work in the map one level down. (or up, depending on how you look at it).

I have actually been doing this, but assumed there would be a way of preventing the irrelevant parts appearing at all.

So it seems we have maybe been talking at cross purposes, but I have still learnt several things on the way.

Thanks,

Gaham
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Ted Goranson
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 141
Virginia Beach VA
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #13 - Jun 4th, 2014, 3:22pm
 
I have found it useful to use separators with labels and distinctive colors to divide up the content and management areas. They can also be used to hold metanotes to me about tasks or gotchas in that section.

A screenshot is at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3c2bdk6a74ur9c7/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-04%20at%203.16...

Now this is v5, and part of the reason is that I typically have a dozen windows open. The color scheme helps me know what is what.

This may not make as much sense in v6 and following, but something to consider.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2014, 3:23pm by Ted Goranson »  
WWW TedGoranson   IP Logged
Graham Smith
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 66
Somerset, UK.
Re: Hiding outline content in map view
Reply #14 - Jun 4th, 2014, 3:30pm
 
Yes Ted, that looks good. I have been using separators a bit like this (but only 4) however, for some reason I can't get them to colour.

I can get the borders to change colour, but the fill stays grey whatever I try. I will need to go back and have another look.

Cheers,

Graham

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print