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Rigas Arvanitis Full Member Offline Posts: 101 Paris (France)	Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six Reply #15 - Oct 09^th, 2014, 12:30pm EXACTLY ! That is what I meant by jumping from one note to the other that "located far away". When using large documents with many notes, this can be vital.
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Mark Bernstein YaBB Administrator Offline designer of Tinderbox Posts: 2871 Eastgate Systems, Inc.	Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six Reply #16 - Oct 9^th, 2014, 12:51pm Woud an alternative interface be a submenu in the View menu View ▸ Recent Notes ▸ by analogy to "Recent Files"?
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Mark Anderson YaBB Administrator Offline User - not staff! Posts: 5689 Southsea, UK	Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six Reply #17 - Oct 9^th, 2014, 1:34pm Presumably that would be gated to N recent items. v5 History was session-scope was it not? The menu idea is nice but in a busy doc an MRU list might not be long enough (depending on # items allowed!).
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J Fallows Full Member Offline Posts: 418	Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six Reply #18 - Oct 9^th, 2014, 3:05pm Quote: I don't know where JOHN STEINBECK is in the document. I suppose I could search. But if I had a history list, I'd just scroll back and there it would be. Is this the scenario people have in mind? Exactamento.
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Rigas Arvanitis Full Member Offline Posts: 101 Paris (France)	Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six Reply #19 - Oct 11^th, 2014, 3:39am Mark Bernstein asks: Quote: Woud an alternative interface be a submenu in the View menu View ▸ Recent Notes ▸ by analogy to "Recent Files"? YES ! that would be excellent.
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JB

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Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #20 - Oct 11^th, 2014, 7:59am

At the risk of stating the obvious:

A submenu with a list of recent notes would be great, but please include in the menu something like 'Previous' and 'Next' so that (with keyboard shortcuts assigned) one could navigate backwards and forwards by means of the keyboard alone.

This is the functionality which Rigas originally asked about, and the one that I would find most helpful.

Thanks,
James

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« Last Edit: Oct 11^th, 2014, 8:15am by JB »

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Rigas Arvanitis Full Member Offline Posts: 101 Paris (France)	Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six Reply #21 - Oct 11^th, 2014, 8:09am James is right about Back and Forward arrows with a keyboard shortcut, but please not [+⌘ or ]+⌘ not accessible in a French keyboard (the [ in French kbd is ⌥ + Shift + opening parenthesis) , ... although, okay, I know, we are small minority
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J Fallows

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Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #22 - Oct 11^th, 2014, 12:37pm

Quote:

A submenu with a list of recent notes would be great, but please include in the menu something like 'Previous' and 'Next' so that (with keyboard shortcuts assigned) one could navigate backwards and forwards by means of the keyboard alone.

This is the functionality which Rigas originally asked about, and the one that I would find most helpful.

FWIW, I think the original request was for something like the old History view, which had a list of a lot of recently viewed notes but did not (to my recollection) have Previous/Next commands or buttons. http://www.acrobatfaq.com/atbref5/index/Views/Minorviews/Historyview.html

So I agree that having those Prev/Next menu labels would be great, for those of us who would like to assign keyboard shortcuts to it. But from my POV, having something like the previous History functionality, with a list of recent notes, would be a big step on its own, whether or not it can be burnished with this additional convenience.

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JB

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Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #23 - Oct 11^th, 2014, 2:46pm

Quote:

FWIW, I think the original request was for something like the old History view

Well, fwiw, Rigas began by asking:
"Where is 'Go back' and 'Navigate' of Tbx 5?"

Anyway, v5 did/does have a "Go Back" command under the "Note" menu with Cmd-[ assigned and this does indeed go to the previously viewed note.
There's also a "Navigate" menu item, with Cmd-] assigned, but it doesn't work for me on 5.12.

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Christian Zwieb

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Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #24 - Oct 16^th, 2014, 10:55am

Short of a history browser, I consult five agents:
$Modified="today"
$Modified="yesterday"
($Modified < "today - 2 days ") &! ($Modified < "today - 8 days ")
($Modified < "today - 8 days ") &! ($Modified < "today - 30 days ")
($Modified < "today - 31 days ") &! ($Modified < "today - 90 days ")

For me, this is good enough to identify notes that I have been working with in the recent past.

Chris

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Mark Anderson

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Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #25 - Oct 16^th, 2014, 12:11pm

Thanks for sharing. Queries ignore spaces outside quoted strings, but I think your join, in syntax terms is ') & !(' as opposed to ') &! ('. The point, for the learner that the the !(…) contruct negates, i.e. flips, the condition in the parentheses. Thus:

($Modified < "today - 8 days ") evaluates 'true' if $Modified is more than 8 days ago

but…

!($Modified < "today - 8 days ") evaluates 'false' if $Modified is more than 8 days ago, as the leading exclamation makes '!' flips the operation.

It is useful where there is no reverse operator set, such as a 'does not contain' test. Wheras == has != and < has >. The latter could have been used to replace < in the latter above and thus not need the '!', but this also shows there's often more than one perfectly valid syntax to get to the same outcome (i.e. no specific right/wrong to the choice).

You may see examples like !$SomeAttribute, but I recall this can confuses TB's parser and !($SomeAttribute) is recommended instead. As the examples above show, you can as easily put an expression in the parentheses as a single attribute name

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aTbRef v6
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Rigas Arvanitis

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Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #26 - Oct 16^th, 2014, 12:21pm

Christian , thanks

Edited:

...$Modified="today"
$Modified="yesterday"
($Modified < "today - 2 days ") &! ($Modified < "today - 8 days ")
($Modified < "today - 8 days ") &! ($Modified < "today - 30 days ")
($Modified < "today - 31 days ") &! ($Modified < "today - 90 days ")

This works when notes are modified. Would like to have this when they are visited.

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Rigas Arvanitis

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Mark Anderson YaBB Administrator Offline User - not staff! Posts: 5689 Southsea, UK	Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six Reply #27 - Oct 16^th, 2014, 12:31pm $SelectionCount and $ReadCount do sort of track that but unless you're storing old values somewhere to compare them with current ones, it doesn't help much. Thus, I do think there's a valid need for the old History view, even if not everyone uses it.
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Michael Bywater

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Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #28 - Aug 13^th, 2015, 2:37am

Late to this party but I want to add my voice here. I hadn't realised two of the things I use most frequently aren't yet restored in 6.1.3. They're both pretty crucial and while I'll put in a request directly to MB, I want to put it up here to see if it suits, or arouses wrath in, any other users.

(1) Scenario: poodling around notes looking for Emergent Structure - Tb's unique skill. I remember seeing a note n notes ago which should be linked to the one I'm looking at right now. But what was it? If I can have a Go Back In History/Go Forward In History keystroke it would be so easy. And the History (on whose information this would rely) should ideally have its own View as well ("I know it was around *then*, the nearest we can get to the old codex trick of "I know it was around *there*").

(2) The old [ and ] for following links back/forward is also useful. A different purpose -- re-orienting yourself -- but equally good for rapid work. Raising Roadmap or Browse Links windows is too cumbersome for rapid connection-spotting, I find.

Left to my own devices, I'd have cmd-[ and cmd-] for going back and forward in History (a de facto standard command) and something else for travelling back and forward along links. Others may disagree.

But both of these are crucial to the way I use Tbx. Without them, I can easily get lost while browsing my stuff looking for connections; moreover, the old routine of
--spot a note
--park a link
--find the one I saw a few minutes ago, about which the only thing I remember is that I saw it a few minutes ago
--go there with a few keystrokes if it was close, or via the History view if it was over the other side of the file's solar system,
--make the link

...just doesn't work. It reduces the scope for "Aha!" moments, which is, for me, one of Tb's great & unique strengths.

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Mark Bernstein

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Eastgate Systems, Inc.

Re: Navigation in Tinderbox Six
Reply #29 - Aug 13^th, 2015, 10:50am

Link-following and selection do follow undo, but I see that better access to the history stack is desirable. One particularly convincing scenario is:

a) Follow a link to from "Abilene" to "Omaha."

b) Notice a mistake in the text. Correct it.

c) I want to check that the mistake isn’t in Abilene as well. Undo won’t help, because I don’t want to Undo my correction. And Abilene is nowhere near Omaha, so I can't easily go home again.

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